Hmmm. A few issues with this. First of all, this would be a major national headline if a white mob attacked a black couple. Of course, we don’t know the full story since we can’t see what happened before the assault, but this looks every much like a federal hate crime.
Secondly, good on the couple for working together and staying in the fight. They never gave up and held their ground until the police arrived. The kid needs to learn how to fight, though.
Great to see the cops on their trail, too. I’m pretty confident that they’ll see justice for this, and if the facts fit my suspicions, they might get hit with federal hate crime charges. They like to attach life sentences for those.
Do you see this as a justifiable use of lethal force? I’d like to say that you’d never find a jury that would convict somebody for shooting these men under these circumstances, but I’m not 100% confident of that, especially if it were a black jury in the St. Louis area right now, given the racial climate.
If the roles were reversed, and four white men jumped my white wife and I (a black man), I’d feel that using lethal force would be necessary, let alone justified. I’d argue that you experience a substantial risk of great bodily harm when assaulted by more than one person, and the risk of death significantly increases with the number of assailants.
I’m not sure what type of lethal force I would use, initially. Considering that I have a significant martial arts background and that I generally carry a pocket knife and concealed firearm in public, I don’t think there’s any good legal arguments against using the firearm in this circumstance. The problem is the practicality of doing so… by the time these men were on him, I don’t think he could have pulled out a firearm without one of them taking it from him and probably using it on him.
My supposition is that I wouldn’t have a choice but to fight hand-to-hand, and I wouldn’t hesitate to use techniques that would cause serious harm and possibly death, i.e. breaking arms, legs, necks and faces (I’ve broken a face before, that’s as bad as many gunshot wounds), whatever I could do in that circumstance, until I either a. killed/stopped the aggressors or b. bought enough distance to get my firearm out and use it.
I think it’s pretty clear he would have been justified in using a firearm… but what if, recognizing the danger, he pulled his firearm in anticipation of the danger? What if he saw the four black males running at him and drew his firearm to stop what he (likely correctly) presumed was imminent potential lethal aggression?
If he had drawn a weapon to stop the danger he perceived was imminent, I think that we’d be reading a story about a white man brandishing a weapon against four unarmed black men, and it’d make headlines in the complete wrong direction. He’d have a very hard time justifying his perception of imminent danger if he stopped an assault that never occurred.
I’m a big fan of small fixed blade knives drawn from a belt mounted kydex sheath for the reason of both initial weapon deployment in a clinch/fouled up tangle and for gun retention.
That’s partly why I carry a knife and I think that’s good justification for carrying that type of equipment. Some states though, I think, would consider the sheath knife you’re talking about an illegal concealed weapon. The state I live in, for example, only issues concealed HANDGUN permit… carrying another weapon such as a baton is not covered by our concealed weapons license.
I wear a neck knife, I have for at least the last 5 years it can be considered a conceals weapon but I have been open about it if the need arose. Cops enjoy openness and honesty.
More than 2 guys on one and you can shoot them because they very easily can smash someone’s face in and kill them. I definitely would have shot them all however I can fight and I also have situational awareness to a hyper-paranoid degree. THis kid needs Krav and Gracie Jujitsu big time!! Thank God the couple came out ok.
Reblogged this on disturbeddeputy and commented:
If you are not carrying daily and practicing your defensive shooting skills, why not? Man up! The cops wouldn’t have had to run so far or fast if the attackers were lying in pools of their own blood.
once again I ask- where are Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton…shouldn’t they be runnin their black mouths and apologizing to this couple for the actions of their race..shouldn’t they be rising up and talking about the pitiful state of their race instead of trying to get a white cop fired for doing his JOB ?? and another thing…why cant these black boys fight one on one ? too scared is why- always gotta be 5 or more…and big man hitting a woman ! I would have loved to see her whip off her heels and just beat the hell outta one of them !!! I would have…course I never wear heels so that would be their first mistake….their 2nd would be I am a 44 year old menopausal woman who is just itchen to kick somebody’s ass most days…so beware ! LOL
RealDefense 
Hmmm. A few issues with this. First of all, this would be a major national headline if a white mob attacked a black couple. Of course, we don’t know the full story since we can’t see what happened before the assault, but this looks every much like a federal hate crime.
Secondly, good on the couple for working together and staying in the fight. They never gave up and held their ground until the police arrived. The kid needs to learn how to fight, though.
Great to see the cops on their trail, too. I’m pretty confident that they’ll see justice for this, and if the facts fit my suspicions, they might get hit with federal hate crime charges. They like to attach life sentences for those.
Do you see this as a justifiable use of lethal force? I’d like to say that you’d never find a jury that would convict somebody for shooting these men under these circumstances, but I’m not 100% confident of that, especially if it were a black jury in the St. Louis area right now, given the racial climate.
If the roles were reversed, and four white men jumped my white wife and I (a black man), I’d feel that using lethal force would be necessary, let alone justified. I’d argue that you experience a substantial risk of great bodily harm when assaulted by more than one person, and the risk of death significantly increases with the number of assailants.
I’m not sure what type of lethal force I would use, initially. Considering that I have a significant martial arts background and that I generally carry a pocket knife and concealed firearm in public, I don’t think there’s any good legal arguments against using the firearm in this circumstance. The problem is the practicality of doing so… by the time these men were on him, I don’t think he could have pulled out a firearm without one of them taking it from him and probably using it on him.
My supposition is that I wouldn’t have a choice but to fight hand-to-hand, and I wouldn’t hesitate to use techniques that would cause serious harm and possibly death, i.e. breaking arms, legs, necks and faces (I’ve broken a face before, that’s as bad as many gunshot wounds), whatever I could do in that circumstance, until I either a. killed/stopped the aggressors or b. bought enough distance to get my firearm out and use it.
I think it’s pretty clear he would have been justified in using a firearm… but what if, recognizing the danger, he pulled his firearm in anticipation of the danger? What if he saw the four black males running at him and drew his firearm to stop what he (likely correctly) presumed was imminent potential lethal aggression?
If he had drawn a weapon to stop the danger he perceived was imminent, I think that we’d be reading a story about a white man brandishing a weapon against four unarmed black men, and it’d make headlines in the complete wrong direction. He’d have a very hard time justifying his perception of imminent danger if he stopped an assault that never occurred.
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I’m a big fan of small fixed blade knives drawn from a belt mounted kydex sheath for the reason of both initial weapon deployment in a clinch/fouled up tangle and for gun retention.
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That’s partly why I carry a knife and I think that’s good justification for carrying that type of equipment. Some states though, I think, would consider the sheath knife you’re talking about an illegal concealed weapon. The state I live in, for example, only issues concealed HANDGUN permit… carrying another weapon such as a baton is not covered by our concealed weapons license.
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Virginia is weird on knives. Generally a double edged fixed blade is a no no but a older locked out in a sheath is ok
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I wear a neck knife, I have for at least the last 5 years it can be considered a conceals weapon but I have been open about it if the need arose. Cops enjoy openness and honesty.
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A pair of quality leather sap gloves are nice as well. 🙂
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Pop a cap my friends and I am not talking about beer.This crap enrages me.
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What victim disarmed utopia did this happen in?
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More than 2 guys on one and you can shoot them because they very easily can smash someone’s face in and kill them. I definitely would have shot them all however I can fight and I also have situational awareness to a hyper-paranoid degree. THis kid needs Krav and Gracie Jujitsu big time!! Thank God the couple came out ok.
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Oh MO…My friend lives there..I shall forward this.
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Reblogged this on disturbeddeputy and commented:
If you are not carrying daily and practicing your defensive shooting skills, why not? Man up! The cops wouldn’t have had to run so far or fast if the attackers were lying in pools of their own blood.
LikeLiked by 1 person
once again I ask- where are Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton…shouldn’t they be runnin their black mouths and apologizing to this couple for the actions of their race..shouldn’t they be rising up and talking about the pitiful state of their race instead of trying to get a white cop fired for doing his JOB ?? and another thing…why cant these black boys fight one on one ? too scared is why- always gotta be 5 or more…and big man hitting a woman ! I would have loved to see her whip off her heels and just beat the hell outta one of them !!! I would have…course I never wear heels so that would be their first mistake….their 2nd would be I am a 44 year old menopausal woman who is just itchen to kick somebody’s ass most days…so beware ! LOL
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