Lots of Things are Wrong With This Carry Rig
Decent equipment isn’t that expensive…
What’s Wrong with this Carry Rig?
Tagged with: Concealed Carry, gun control, gun violence, Guns, NRA, open carry
Posted in Concealed Carry
Posted in Concealed Carry
RealDefense 
It’s nylon, it’s OC in a position that is impossible to see and easy to steal, hard to get to in a timely manner. Yikes. Do your research before you carry people. yeesh
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Geez…
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He needs the pistol magazine bayonet attachment !
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Yes he does!
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None of the afore mentioned items compares to the aggregious fact that he is muzzling everyone on his left. what a dbag.
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No, he isnt.
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This rig wouldn’t be allowed at a range, because he would muzzle-sweep others and himself on the draw.
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Okay 0– It’s nylon — so what? Is it holding the firearm securely?
It’s hard to see? So is a IWB under a shirt, an OWB rig at a person’s side — any particular reason to believe that a carrier has to keep an eye on his firearm at all times?
Easy to steal? — really ? Someone is going to risk trying to kip off with a loaded firearm from someone openly carrying it when they can simply break into 3 houses and have a better chance of getting one and getting away without being caught?
Muzzling every — well, yeah. A firearm in a holster, secured with a retention strap is really a danger. All the detectives that carry in a horizontal shoulder holster — let’s not get carried away with the 4 rules; otherwise people could seldom carry at all.
I don’t get this type of post. We want more people to carry, to take responsibility for their safety but ridicule anyone who doesn’t carry exactly the way we would like them to.
Does the holster do what it is designed to do? Yes. Does it create excessive safety hazard? NO.
Can he do better? Sure. Is it necessary that he do better? NO.
Lighten up folks.
.
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More people should carry and take responsibility for their own safety which also includes being tactically “squared away”.
This sort of carry rig would fall apart (metaphorically and possibly literally) in a force on force class.
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Tactically squared away?
Seriously stop and think about what you are saying. The odds of first a person needing it is incredibly low. The odds of being involved in a force on force situation is even lower.
This is exactly what I’m talking about. We want people to carry but it sounds like you don’t approve unless that have a Level 99,999 Retention Rig with 5,700 hours of training in retention, weak hand only shooting from underneath a car at multiple targets.
How does this help make carrying seem like something most everyone can and should do?
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All it takes for this guy to MINIMALLY sorta fix his carry rig is an extra $30-60 on a holster with a locking mechanism and an extra $8 on a rigid magazine pouch.
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So arguing poverty just doesn’t hold any water just to get up to minimum rigidity. Not even taking best quality holsters and pouches into the argument.
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3boxes: If the odds where you live are so long that you don’t need to train, then you are probably ok just leaving your pistol unloaded in the sock drawer. In fact, given your view on safe carry and the four rules, I suggest it.
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Lighten up? No. The most effective and sure way to increase the population of folks out there carrying safely is make sure they know the very basics about carrying safely. If you think this rig is okay, then that concept is not important enough to you. This rig is dangerous to the shooter *and* for those around him. Fiddling with a gun behind your back while certainly muzzling someone? Come on. That’s just dumb. If someone showed up to a class like this they would be “squared away” immediately.
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Thank you!
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I kept thinking of this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0
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Frankly, I think that’s just a totally dumb way to OC. The person in that picture can do a better job, and it won’t cost a lot of cash.
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Are you kidding?
This is ridiculous. I honestly don’t see how he can draw without pulling his pants off. That’s kind of the point of a holster… being able to access your firearm when you need it.
If he’s not concerned with being able to bring his firearm into action quickly – and obviously he isn’t – then let him leave it at home or in the car. This isn’t a compromise – it’s retarded.
I guarantee you – any bad guy seeing something like that will be thinking the exact same thing – stupid fat mark. Hope he isn’t alone when that happens, because someone WILL roll his chubby butt and he’ll be lucky not to get shot with his own handgun.
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Thank you!
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Reblogged this on Brittius.com and commented:
Got Re-holstering Skills?
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Personally wouldn’t carry like that, but IF he can safely draw and fire from it, which I doubt, then whatever. Better than no protection at all…
As far as what “I” see wrong with it is that no one can draw quickly and safely from that position. He must move the gun 180 degrees around his body vs 90 with an IWB or OWB waist holster, thus doubling necessary movement required to fire, and it would presumably be in a hurry, so if he chooses this then he definitely needs to practice a quick draw and fire. It appears to me this would put him in more danger from himself than from an attacker.
Again it’s his rig so whatever works for him. I just personally wouldn’t carry in that mode….
To each his own though. These are just what I personally feel are wrong with the rig.
But, maybe for his type of carry needs it is what works best for him…..again, his rig, his choice.
Just my thoughts on it.
~S~
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Respectfully, I reject the “Everyone gets a trophy!” approach when it comes to evaluating a carry rig. 😉
Variations in a carry rig are fine as long as you can carry the gun safely and deploy it effectively and efficiently.
This rig wouldn’t even be allowed on most standard shooting ranges because drawing from it violates NRA Rule 1.
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GSP: wasn’t trying to give the guy a trophy lolol. Just sayin that though it really is a crappy rig, it may fit some very limited needs. You couldn’t pay me to carry a BB gun like that!! And it certainly does violate safety rules. NRA definitely wouldn’t allow it, and I wouldn’t shoot within 1,000 yards of this guy on a range, given any competent range officer overlooked this crap rig. But again, in a very limited scope it may be what the guy needs to use, even though I couldn’t personally justify such.
Out
~S~
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Dangit I replied and it didn’t “take”…..ok well, to each his own and all, but I personally wouldn’t carry this way. Just not MY style. Perhaps this guy has a good reason….dunno…but guaranteed it would double his draw time cuz it would be a 180 degree rotation vs. 90. I suppose with practice and with no need to respond to close combat, then whatever. I’d rather the guy carry like this than not at all. I just hope he never needs it in a hurry.
As far as someone stealing it…well, that would be extremely dangerous for all involved, including a prospective thief.
However, there ARE people who carry their primary weapon in an ankle holster, which sure as heck isn’t a quick draw system, but again, better than no system at all…
Totally agree that if this is the fella’s primary carry rig he could do much better. But in the end it is his ass on the line, not mine, so whatever.
Just my $.02
~S~
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I think the guy in question just doesn’t know any better.
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First understand that the gun grab is not a myth. There is a reason that police get hours of in-holster weapon retention training. Bad guys can and will attempt to forcibly remove your firearm. I have seen video of it being done to cops. I’ve seen video of convicts teaching it to other convicts in prison. I teach the class on keeping it from happening to you. If you are not aware of this or do not know how to counteract it you should probably not open carry. Yes, if you open carry, you need to keep it where you can it peripherally. That being said, I do not know of a valid retention technique that will work with the configuration pictured. He is giving his gun away. If you think that only matters to him, then you need to think it all the way through. A person taking this fella’s gun has bad intentions for it. That probably includes, but is not limited to, store clerks, bank tellers, hostages, interfering police and other armed persons.
If it were concealed it would be better, but I have my doubts it would pass the “Shake, rattle and roll” test. If he got into a fight and was taken to the ground( think double leg takedown) his day goes from bad to worse. Either he would fall on the gun, hurting his back while making the gun difficult to access and/or the gun would end up coming lose in the struggle, becoming up for grabs on floor. Both bad outcomes.
He would not be allowed to use that rig on my range. It is very difficult to holster without muzzling yourself and anyone/ anything to your immediate left. I can’t say this guy does not practice with this rig, but I can say that if he does he should be pretty isolated. The picture appears to be taken where other people are shooting, so I guess someone somewhere is ok with it, but not me. Admittedly, this rig does fix the “I have to look down to reholster” problem that many shooters experience.
Not getting carried away with the “four rules is precisely how negligent discharges occur. I can’t be more clear, relaxing the safety rules kills people. This is not only tragic, but it also gives the anti-gun politicians legitimate traction when creating gun control legislation. If following the four rules like they are a religion discourages someone from purchasing or carrying a firearm then the world is a safer place.
The goal is not to get as many people carrying as possible. Carrying a firearm is not some kind of social club having a membership drive! If you can’t or won’t follow the common sense guidelines, it isn’t for you.
The criticism here is constructive, not ridicule. I don’t want that guy to feel bad, I want him to be safe. I admire him for choosing to take responsibility for his own defense, but I’d love to see him do it in a way that keeps him and everyone around him safe.
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doortothefarright
This is exactly what makes some people not like gun owners. Seriously think about the attitude you are giving me here.
f the odds where you live are so long that you don’t need to train,
Where did I say people don’t need to train? I said the odds of him needing it in a situation are low and the odds of that situation denigrating to force on force are even lower.
For all you know, the guy is an expert who can get his firearm out faster than you can. Judging from a single picture is an invitation to making mistakes. You are doing so in this case.
then you are probably ok just leaving your pistol unloaded in the sock drawer. In fact, given your view on safe carry and the four rules, I suggest it.
Again — the goal is to get more people to exercise their rights and you give me guff and suggest I don’t carry??
Pretty effing arrogant aren’t you?
I looked at the image presented and discussed the 4 Rules — and I know this may offend you but those rules exist for a reason — but those rules don’t cover every situation, now do they?
If anyone can holster up each and every day without pointing a firearm at something they aren’t willing to destroy — I’ll donate $50 to the Brady Campaign. Be it the floor, the night stand where your weapon is kept, the bed, closet, etc — at some point in time a firearm is going to muzzle something.
His is properly holstered is it not?
Pulling it out in a fight wouldn’t muzzle anyone any more than a shoulder holster would.
There is a reason that police get hours of in-holster weapon retention training.
Uh, is that because they come in contact with bad guys day after day? And therefore the ODDS of someone — who they are trying to arrest something a non-LEO seldom has to do — might resist?
The situation between the two are not the same. The likelihood of a gun grab on a non-LEO is incredibly remote.
The criticism here is constructive, not ridicule
Really ? Just how does that work when you don’t know who the guy is and aren’t discussing the issue with him? How is it constructive to him?
And while your comments may be more constructive, you can’t say the same about all the commenters.
And yes, the goal is to get more people to carry — all that want to. The more people exercising their rights the harder it is for them to be taken away. This isn’t some ‘good ol’ boys’ club where only the right people with the right gear get to play.
This is the attitude that turns off many non-gun owners — people rightly see the average guy being ridiculed and his gear mocked because he doesn’t meet an individuals standard of how it should be done.
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This is not what makes people dislike gun owners. Fear makes people dislike gun owners. Ignorance, too perhaps, but not a rigid commitment to firearms safety.
I find it disturbing that you think there is a difference between “needing it” and “force on force encounter” when else do you need it other than when you are in a deadly force encounter? Telling.
You don’t think I can look at a single picture of a holster rig and judge how well it works? I’ve been teaching the class long enough, I’m confident I can.
Your naive, misguided goal may be to simply get as many guns in as many hands as you can. My goal is a little more specific. It is to preserve life through the responsible use of firearms. Proliferation is not the answer.
Yes, the four rules always apply. Always. I am, in fact, willing to shoot the ground or floor in the unlikely event that the gun should discharge during holstering (which it won’t do since I’m following the rules). I worked the streets as a cop for 12 years without a rule violation. Kinda childish that you went there. Now, send the Brady’s their money.
Every accidental shooting involves a simultaneous violation of two of the four rules. Every single one. Relaxing those rules is foolishness. If you have the attitude that the rules don’t always apply to you, then you are danger to yourself and those around you. You can’t be scared people won’t like you because you want them to follow the rules that prevent accidental death. In every CWP, gun safety, and personal defense class I’ve ever taught I always get the question “what is a good age to teach my kid to shoot” my answer is always the same. “it has nothing to do with age. When a person is mature enough to remember, understand and follow the safety rules without fail, then they are ready to learn to shoot. This may be 10 years old, maybe 15, maybe never.”
You are correct in saying that the man pictured would not muzzle any more than a shoulder holster. Shoulder holsters are barred from most organized range events. Mostly you see them on TV. I can only speak to my general area, but plain clothed police don’t wear them.
I can’t believe I have to explain this, but you asked how it works, so I will. you never saw me ridicule or mock this guy over his gear. I did point out some deficiencies, but there was no pointing and laughing on my part. How does it help? Well if the reader is open to learning something, they might just might. You clearly are not in this category. Yes, it IS Possible to learn from someone else’s mistakes. Someone else may be using a similar rig and go “oh hey, I didn’t think of that.” And just like magic, progress is made. If you feel comments made by others were out of line, take it up with them.
You are sorely mistaken if you think that I represent a “good ol boy” club that requires the right gear. In fact if you had been paying any attention at all, you would know that nothing I have said is about gear, it is about safety. It is about behavior and use of gear. His gear is fine, his use of the gear is dangerous.
My attitude has never turned a responsible person away. There are standards. They aren’t my individual standards, they are widely accepted community standards. There are safety rules. I didn’t invent them, but I follow them and strongly encourage others to do the same. I refuse to allow the rules to be broken and I insist the standards be met when I am in charge of a range activity. If this turns away people who would not want to shoulder the responsibility of rules and standards, then the world is safer for it. If that gets in the way of your “put a gun in every hand” plan then that’s just too bad.
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GSB,
All it takes for this guy fix his carry rig is an extra $15 on a rigid FOBUS holster and an extra $8 on a rigid magazine pouch.
Don’t see you offering to spend the $23 to equip the guy to your standard. Why is that?
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I don’t have the guy’s contact info!
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I will gleefully buy him a holster and mag pouch rig if you can get me in touch with him.
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Any luck finding his contact info?
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Because it’s not his responsablity. It’s the gun owners. That guys carry rig is dangerous. There is no way he can not muzzle himself holstering and re holstering. If you can’t see why that’s a problem well no one can fix stupid. A decent kydex holster can be had for $30 a fraction of the cost of the handgun. Pull you head out and stop defending stupidity.
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1. Location- Small of back can be dangerous to the carrier if in a fall or auto accident of any kind
2. SOB is quite possibly the SLOWEST and most non consistent draw method.
3. Angle of the gun/Grip make getting a proper firing grip on the gun BEFORE drawing impossible.
4. “Generic” holsters suck. PERIOD
5. Nylon holsters suck, with VERY few specific exceptions. PERIOD
6. inability to secure and maintain control of the firearm at all times. Basic safety protocol.
7. Due to the persons body type and shape, worst possible placement. Ergonomics can be pretty simple people.
8.(Assumption) The photo appears to be in a public area….not a range. Public areas require even MORE discipline than range time.
9. (Assumption) If in public than this is a “defensive” pistol. There is nothing in this image that portrays usefulness in an entangled struggle that often results
Brief summary- It is not efficient, safe, secure, accessible or of adequate quality or defensive carry.
Read on for specifics of what i teach/recommend:
The “Total Carry System”
I have had many conversations (and seen even more in life) that makes this relevant, and something we talk about every chance we can. This is part of our business ideal and our training programs. Bear with me as this is usually a discussion or open forum and i will be typing a one sided discussion…..
The Total Carry System-
Most people that carry a gun for “defense” worry about the “gun” and not all of the other essential items. I am not talking accessories, but essentials. If you want accessories go to Macy’s.
-Quality gun. I do not care about brands, models or much else. If you are going to use this for defense, i highly recommend a caliber equal to or greater than 9mm. The most important factor in firearms selection is one that you can efficiently manipulate and put effective hits on target with.
-Quality Ammo. The gun is almost worthless with out ammo. Do not cheap out on defensive ammo. Again i do not advocate a certain brand, bullet style, caliber or grain. What is important is that it runs in your gun (test this BEFORE you carry it) and helps you put those positive hits on target. The one style recommendation i do make, is that any thing you carry be a factory ammo labeled “for personal defense” or similar.
-Quality Holster. I admit i am a little biased on this since i manufacture holsters, but brand/style are again not my goal. The important thing is that the holster is designed for that weapon. You would not wear “Crocs” to run a marathon, don’t buy a “one size fits all” holster. Snaps, buttons, and levers unless required by your SOP’s or job contract serve little to no purpose in civilian carry, they are often added to increase the “one size fits all” scenario.
-Quality Belt. If you are going to carry a gun, buy a GUN BELT. On this i do make brand recommendations….If you prefer nylon webbed belts look at Wilderness Tactical ( http://www.thewilderness.com/ ), if you prefer leather look to Galco. ( http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterP1.asp?CatalogID=253 ) Are there other great belts out there? Sure but these are Arizona based companies (same state as me) that meet or exceed every other product out there.
-Quality Mindset. This is last on the list, but top of the required essentials when carrying a gun. There is one way to truly develop this particular skill set…TRAINING. Much of the training and research can be done on your own, but i cannot enough plead with you to seek out quality professional training. Again, since we are based in Arizona there is no need to leave the state to get this.
http://azmbi.com/
http://www.independencetraining.com/
http://www.gunsite.com/main/ and many, many more.
Carrying a gun is a “lifestyle” choice, and one that should be taken with the utmost preparation. We all practice, train and carry to “Stop the Threat,” but how do we do that? We put gaping holes in vital organs and either remove the fight from the threat or the threat from the fight. This is as real deal as it gets, there are no second chances and a serious liability to even carrying let alone God forbid you have to employ you weapon. We at TCB live and believe the “Sheepdog” ( http://www.killology.com/sheep_dog.htm ) lifestyle, and i think it is the best analogy of “why I carry a gun.” Please think about this and make adjustments as needed.
Have Fun, Stay Safe…
Jason
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Has no one noticed that the gun is backwards? Mentally turn the gun upright and then slide it around to a normal 4 o clock position. Yep! Butt forward! Think about the twist he has to put on his hand and wrist to get the correct grip on the gun. Obviously he hasn’t!
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SOB carry has its share of inherent problems, but it IS a viable method. The weapon in the photo seems to me to be holstered “backwards” in that getting a firm grip on the weapon will be very difficult as a part of the draw. With the butt upwards this works much better, and that is how most SOB holsters are made. I believe that SOB carry is best suited for concealment situations rather than for open carry — just my opinion. As far as range rules go, a lot of them are just not practical for everyday carry. Most ranges ban most shoulder holsters because when safely holstered the gun breaks the “180°” rule. Likewise with most crossdraw rigs. Most ranges are “cold ranges” where one cannot have their weapon loaded except when actually on the firing line. Tell me how THAT rule works for everyday carry? I don’t like nylon holsters, but they work for some people. I’d like to see just how that holster is attached to his belt.
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